"Indigenous Americans who travelled across the Atlantic were horrified by inequalities in European society"

Caroline Dodds pennock talks to Ellie Cawthorne about her new book tracing the remarkable stories of Indigenous Americans who voyaged to Europe after 1492

- By Caroline Dodds Pennock

Ellie Cawthorne: Let's start with the title of your book, On Savage Shores. What can you tell us about the meaning?

Caroline Dodds Pennock: People often use the term "savage" as a racial slur to diminish and belittle Indigenous peoples. I wanted to deliberately invert that stereotype. In my book, I follow Indigenous Americans who travelled to Europe after 1492 - from their perspective, Europe was a much more savage place than the Americas.

We tend to think of the "Columbian exchange" as a one-way cultural encounter - a story of Europeans going to the Americas. Why is it that we don't hear much about Indigenous Americans coming to Europe?

That's a good question. It's not that historians have never written about this; I'm standing on the shoulders of other scholars in my work. But for some reason the presence of Indigenous peoples in Europe doesn't seem to have made an impression on popular understanding of the past. I think that might be because, in our imagination, 15th and 16th-century Europe is a white, ruffed and codpieced "Golden Age". The stories we're told are about kings, lords and royal dramas. But how many people know that there was a Brazilian king at Henry VIII's court, or that there were tens of thousands of enslaved Indigenous people in Spain?

How many Indigenous Americans came to Europe, and when?