Richard Dawkins on the New Enemies of Scientific Thinking

THE LEGENDARY ATHEIST AND EVOLUTIONARY BIOLOGIST ARGUES THAT TRUTH SHOULDN'T BEND TO FAITH OR FASHIONABLE POLITICS.

- interview by NICK GILLESPIE photos by Tom Jamieson

FEW LIVING THINKERS have been as influential—or controversial—as Richard Dawkins. An evolutionary biologist by training, Dawkins rose to prominence with his 1976 book The Selfish Gene, which revolutionized the public understanding of evolution by shifting the focus from organisms to the genes that shape them (as well as surfacing the now-ubiquitous concept of the meme, which Dawkins defined as units of cultural transmission or imitation). In the decades since, he has become almost as well known for his critiques of religion as for his scientific work, with 2006's The God Delusion establishing him as one of the world’s most outspoken atheists. Dawkins’ work shows why free inquiry and the scientific method are essential for human progress, especially when they are under threat from religious dogma or new forms of ideological orthodoxy.

In this wide-ranging conversation with Reason’s Nick Gillespie, recorded live in September 2024 in Milwaukee as part of Dawkins’ Final Bow tour, the two discuss the central metaphor of Dawkins’ latest book, The Genetic Book of the Dead, which presents every organism as a kind of living archive of evolutionary history. He explains how cooperation among genes—not just competition—drives natural selection. The two also explore the role of atheism in a changing moral landscape, whether science requires a specific cultural or political environment to thrive, and what humans might gravitate toward next as belief in traditional religion continues to decline.

Reason: I first encountered your work as an undergrad. I was a double major in psychology and English. When reading your work, I couldn’t believe that I was reading science because I understood what you were saying. But in The Genetic Book of the Dead, you use a term—palimpsest—as a controlling metaphor. What is a palimpsest, and why is it so important to what you’re doing in this book?